I’ve been the auto trans specialist at my ford and dodge dealer for 8 years, the 6f35, 10spds and the RFE transmissions are so much fun to build. Makes me feel good to see someone else my age doing what I do, keep playing in the red juice brother.
we had a 10l80 in a 2020 Silverado that had the pump drive idler gear spin on the bearing race and start walking off. It caused a supercharger whine noise. We pulled it and replaced the front piece behind the converter that houses all the pump drive stuff and it has been great ever since. We love this trans. It is amazing. The shifting is spot on. It never gear hunts. Its about as good as a trans can get.
GM tried to avoid complaints for noise from the straight cut gear Ford used but nobody bothered to make sure the bearing could handle the thrust of a helical gear.
I bought a ‘21 F150 Lariat in August with 37k miles. I noticed the same thing, very clunky when coming up to a stop on downshifts. Took it to the Ford dealer I bought it from and ended up getting the transmission overhauled with the new updated CDF drum, clutches, seals, etc. I was told that per Ford they just clean the valve body and reinstall it. My service advisor told me to drive the truck for 1000 miles and if it’s still not shifting properly they will replace the valve body as well. One thing I wasn’t expecting was that when they were removing the cats to get the trans out, the bolt threads on the turbos stripped so I ended up with brand new turbos as well all covered under warranty lol. The truck definitely shifts much better now but it’s only been a few hundred miles so far
Municipal mechanic here....We just got two 2024 f-550's and four 2024 F-350's. First 350 we got we took it back to service department for the transmission whine. Dealership seemed perplexed by it but in the meantime, we took delivery of the 550's and they had the same noise. Sounds like a PTO is engaged. Dealership called us and said it appears to be normal (which we had already sort of figured out ourselves through reasoning). Plans are to buy about 16 more of these over the next 2 years so I sure hope they can hold up to a lot of idling, pulling, and plowing. I really like the transmission. I don't necessarily like the whine but it is what it is. Definitely very noticeable. Thanks for your videos, Mayson! Doin' a great job.
@@fastinradfordable Ha Ha...not been around municipal vehicles much have you? They probably idle as much as police vehicles if not more depending on what they're using the truck for that day. Read the manual.....👍 Got it!
Funny you mention whine in the transmissions... don't know how old you are, but if you remember the ORIGINAL Allison automatics from the 70's and 80's those things whined like a gear driven camshaft, but they never died. Hopefully that's the case here as well, but time will tell.
@@kleetus92 the earliest Allison's I have been around was the old 4 speed that the torque converter locked in each gear. I think they were a 740D??? I drove front discharge concrete trucks for many years and they all had this transmission. They were indestructible but when it they switched from, say, second to third gear, the converter would unlock and then it would just hang in third / unlocked forever it seemed then the converter would lock and you would start to gain speed again. Then it would switch to fourth gear and unlock the converter again. It would hang there in fourth / unlocked forever with the engine at 2000 rpm then it would lock the converter and then it is was good from there. Form what it felt like, they would take off in first unlocked then go to first locked, second unlocked to second locked, third unlocked to third locked, and then fourth unlocked to fourth locked so they were always skipping around with engine rpm. And yes, they were noisy. Especially switching from first gear locked to second gear unlocked and second gear locked to third gear unlocked.
I bought a F150 XLT sport FX4 in December of 2019 with 32 miles on it. I noticed immediately that it was clunky in the lower gears. I drove it on pipeline job sites, towed a side by side, towed a boat, and drove thousands of miles. It was just clunky. Last year at around 84,000 miles, I noticed it shifting hard between 3rd and 4th gear. I took it in for a replacement of the APIM and some other warranty issues and I asked them to check the programming on the transmission. The dealer called me and said they wanted to remove my transmission and check for the bushing issue in the CDF drum. I had the extended service plan, so I said no problem. They ended up having my truck for a month due to a shortage of some single use bolts for the reinstall process. Have no idea if they installed a new valve body or the new style drum, but it seems to be doing fine and it’s much smoother. That whole process cost me 100 bucks. The service manager told me this year when I took it back for cam phaser replacement, that they charge 9500 bucks for a non warranty 10R80 replacement.
I bought a ‘21 F150 Lariat in August with 37k miles. I noticed the same thing, very clunky when coming up to a stop on downshifts. Took it to the Ford dealer I bought it from and ended up getting the transmission overhauled with the new updated CDF drum, clutches, seals, etc. I was told that per Ford they just clean the valve body and reinstall it. My service advisor told me to drive the truck for 1000 miles and if it’s still not shifting properly they will replace the valve body as well. One thing I wasn’t expecting was that when they were removing the cats to get the trans out, the bolt threads on the turbos stripped so I ended up with brand new turbos as well all covered under warranty lol. The truck definitely shifts much better now but it’s only been a few hundred miles so far
$8000 to dealer in middle GA at 120k in my 2018. Took them 3 transmissions from ford to get a good reman unit. 10k miles later and they’ve already had to swap it again for an another reman. Wish I could’ve brought it straight to you to begin with. $5500 rebuild from someone who knows what they’re looking at beats a mechanic they just changes parts.
As a GM dealer tech. i will say the valve bodies are having lots of problems. been replacing lots of em. I have only seen one totally trashed due to owner abuse,
I've had to build my transmissions, to stand up to my heavy foot for years. A new one needs $6000, of parts and work, to be bullet proofed. Maybe more, if your slapping a Whipple, on your new 5.0 F150, you'd need a bit more. I believe a 10r80, builds up to a 10R140...on the same case. Building it up front, is cheaper than waiting for it to break.
I have a 2020 Silverado. I bought it July 2024 with 35,900 miles. It has the 10L80 paired with the 3.0 Duramax. I'm doing transmission fluid changes every 25k miles. Fluid is cheap and transmissions are expensive.
@@Sleeper_Solutions Buys 3.0 duramax and acts like it’s goona last😂😂😂😂 Save the fluid money for when the two engine belts go out at 150 Or the thermostat that’s inaccessible without removing the motor 😭😭😭
Great trans. I love it!! Does have a few issues but new stuff does. I'm a tech so over haul is easy on these so I absolutely own one. 2018 F-150 w/3.5l
According to TSB 24-2304, published 24Sep2024, the build date range is On or Before 15Aug2022. Vehs built after this date have the revised CDF parts.👍🏻
I like the 10 speed,love the skip shifting. Great for towing.Beats 6r80 hands down when towing.My 17 f150 3.5 with 10r80 was way smoother than my 19 3.5 with 10r80.This one shifts rough when cold but otherwise fine
Really enjoy your videos man but I gotta disagree on which trans is best. Mopar used to have major trans issues, ZF 8-spd resolved everything. The amount of abuse customers put those through (Wranglers, Hellcats, etc) and it just takes it. Even the lighter duty versions are great. We're about to find out how it handles the Cummins but I'll be surprised if theres any issues based on their prior track record. Keep up the good work brother!
A lot of the previous 6 speeds were born from the ZF 6HP such Ford 6R line and GMs 6L line. The ZF 8HP is a successor to that meanwhile Ford and GM went off on a repeat of the 6 speed transverse.
I work at a Ford Dealer in Michigan. Have a 17 F150 Raptor with the 10R80, I think it is a CDF Drum because it slams into gear when shifting into drive
The Cup plugs in the input shaft also become disloged. The E clutch seals blow out. Also had the pin in the pump roll out of position causing low pressure. On the 10r60, the A clutch snap ring likes to blow out.
2018 F-150 got as a demo with 2000 miles in early 2019. Now at 120k. Changed 8:15 fluid and filter at 80k and had a shop flush at 100k. Does skip gears especially 1-3 and sometimes clunky into 4. I run in tow mode about monthly just to exercise all the valves and clutches. Runs great, tows strong. Looking for 300k. We’ll see.
I had my 2020 rebuilt this spring because it was locking up on the 1-2 shift the first shift of the day cold, literally sliding the rear tires. It had under 40,000 miles. I know they put in the updated drum/ bushing and a bunch of other parts. Hopefully the anodized shell was done also. I’m glad I got the extended 100,000 mile warranty
2017 3.5 ecoboost 120k miles. Did a filter and fluid change at 75k miles. Gonna do a fluid change at 125k. I have an occasional shift flair going into 4th when it does shift into it which is annoying and only the first shift of the day. It also downshifts into 3rd clunky from time to time. It’s been like this since I bought it with 50k Miles. Other than that it’s been solid. Wonder how much time I got left before a rebuild.
Great speed video on all the 10 speed issues, upgrades, solutions. Wow $5k for a rebuild + reinstall + programing / relearning; how much fuel money is saved ? All these extra moving parts, there is good reliablity in simplier 3, 4 transmissions. Dipsicks let you check fluid level /quality AND add fluid that leaks over time.
I find it interesting that there's a lot of fine particulate matter that seems to be getting into the controls... what all does this transmission family have by way of filtration? I'm sure there's a sock or whatever in the pan, but is there an external fine or polishing filter in the cooling loop? In seeing some of the shots with the valve body being split, there's A TON of contamination in there that I'm honestly surprised to see. How is that stuff getting past the filter and pumps? Seems like a great case for an external spin on 10 micron hydraulic filter to be added.
I did a full fluid exchange on my 18 F150 at 100K miles. I am almost to 150K miles now and plan to do it every 50K going forward. Is this a good plan? It’s been flawless so far.
Well I ordered a 2018 Kinger, but I did a bunch of mods. Had a custom tune made from MPT tuning so it would shift every gear!! I wonder how long it will hold. We don’t beat the truck but she makes 15 pounds!! So much fun. And yes we had the rev limiter turned down!! She makes power tho!!
Great video! Thanks for the info. I have a 2018 Expedition that was manufactured in March of 2018. It has 72,500 miles on it. I have a couple of questions. Are there any preventative measures that you would recommend? Fluid change or additives, or anything else that I can do as preventative maintenance???
Drop the pan and change the filter every 30,000 miles. Refill with fluid. That only gets about half the fluid, which is why it needs to be changed every 30,000 miles
You could change the fluid every day and it wont stop it from failing. Nothing you can do to stop that sleeve from walking. Unfortunately we are stuck fixing Fords discount engineering.
Could you make a video discussing the symptoms that would cause someone to need a rebuild? What would you feel while driving that would correlate to the CDF drum bushing or the F clutch notching?
I’ll keep driving my 2005 F250 with the 5R110W TorqShift 5-Speed. Never had a problem with that transmission and it pulls my race car hauler trailer to the dragstrip just fine.
2020 Ranger - Love the way the truck pulls a trailer with this trans and a little 4 cyl. I have only one issue with mine (beside occasional rough 5th gear shift) is when it's very cold outside and you start it first thing in the morning and drive off - it has a HUGE hesitation on the first shift, then fine after that. I have had it at the deal 3 times and each time they reprogram it and say it's fine now. It does not have the issue when overnight temp is above 55 degrees or if I wait 2 -3 minutes after starting the engine to drive off. Strange but I guess I need to be patient. Seems to me they could diagnose without even looking at the truck - just from the symptoms but I don't think these local dealership guys really understand the trans, they just fix per the manual.
My A10R80 came half a quart low on fluid from Factory. Then after an exhaust cam solenoid replacement. Has turned into the best transmission I have ever driven.
Thanks Flying Wrenches for the awesome video! I just bought a 2019 F150 with the Gen2 3.5 eco boost and 10 speed transmission. It was “Gold certified” pre owned from the local big ford dealer. After I got it home I saw in the carfax that the transmission was rebuilt (or replaced, I can’t tell) about 8k miles ago (in late 2023). Does this necessarily mean it will have these revised parts (namely the CDF drum) that have caused so many issues? Would the dealer be able to confirm that?
Only transmission I haven’t had a single issue with is the Aisin 6 speed in my 2008 Tundra 5.7…300k hard miles and still shifts like new! After almost 17 years I’m starting to look at something new…but Toyota ruined the new Tundra. Now I see all the issues Ford and GM are STILL dealing with…ugh. Wtf do I buy?!?! 😵💫
I’ve bean Asian import technician for 30 years and unfortunately there’s nothing being made by Toyota or Honda that I would recommend to anyone. My advice is to buy used and find the rare low mileage vehicles in the market even if you have to pay more for them. Small turbocharged vehicles with DI and CVT transmissions have ruined the long term reliability of most vehicles being built today.
I feel your pain... we're in the same boat, I am currently on my second Tundra, 247,000 with only the secondary air pump recall and regular maintenance.
I have a 2019 F-150 3.5 Ecoboost that I've towed our 8,000lb camper about 5,500 miles with. Just about to turn 42k on the odometer and I haven't had an issued with the transmission. (Knock on wood) The Cam Phasers have started to rattle a touch on startup however....
I think you should get rid of those cam phasors. I did on my 2018 3.5, much quieter and it seems like a component that is bound to fail in time. Mine got noisier, when I checked out the Ford replacement cam phasers. They were much sturdier device than the ones they put on the 2018 I owned.
Had a 2019 f150 5.0 with that 10 speed and hated it. Traded that for a 2017 5.0 6 speed and love it. That being said I just bought a 2021 expedition max platinum lease turn in with the 3.5 eco and that 10 speed. Only has 19000 miles on it and so far it’s a night and day difference. Time will tell but hoping it’s a good tranny.
I've got a '21 Expedition and we had the CDF drum, valve body and a bunch of cooked clutches replaced. Trans out 3 different times to fix all the issues. They finally just replaced the transmission with a new one. All of the updated parts were end of '22 so '23 and up will have all the new stuff. Mine finally drives as it should.
I have a 2022 F-250 and notice while towing my 9000 pound travel trailer The transmission down shifts hard from 10th to eighth while I’m slowing down. Sometimes from 9th to 8th. Not sure why Plus Ford can’t seem to get a module for my 360 camera system in it’s on national backorder with no ETA. Sucks not have the cameras. Build date was 12/2022
You didn't check the endplay clearance in your video assembling the 10r80. We set the case on a super duty rotor and set the shell on a 5gal bucket with a hole in the bottom and assemble everything in a "upright" position. Makes life a lot easier.
2019 f150 2.7. Wonder if those software updates are available for older vehicles. No issues other than occasional clunk shifting to R and sometimes forgets to pick a gear when accelerating.
That’s the problem. The engines keep pushing out more and more hp, to keep the EPA happy with fuel miles and also keeping the customers happy it’s a trade off. They have pushed all they can with newer trucks. The add more gears and run tall ratios will only go so far with keeping both sides happy. The older trucks will always be better and more reliable.
Damn I got a 2021 2.7 and seems to shift fine, only had 27k miles on it. But do all of these 10r80s go out..? or is it just something that’s happened to a couple thousand of theses transmissions ?
I have 17’ Raptor and mine does the stupid skipping gears shit. One thing you didn’t mention is the adaptive learning garbage. Do the new ones still do this? Do you think the adaptive learning is the reason for wonky shifting. I have to clear my tables every 4 months to keep it smooth.
On Mustang GT after ATF and Filter change is it safe to "Flush The Torque Converter " ? Camaro don't have filter its just drain ATF and Fill in New ATF, after is it safe to Flush The Torque Converter ?
Can you please talk about a 2024 F-150 5.0 coyote STX am I good with this one and are there updates on the 2024 models since we are going into the new year? Pressed the LIKE button
Hey Mayson, my 18 Expedition is starting to show some shifting issues and at 94k miles I'm guessing it's the cdf drum finally failing. What's the lead time on ya'll getting them in and what's the turnaround time? I'm in Texas but I'm tired of dealing with lying dealers and shady service departments out here.
@flying wrenches - Is it possible to upgrade the transmission software to the newer calibrations (21+ or S650) on a 2019 Mustang? I have driven the s650 and the way it shifts compared to my 2019 is night/day difference. Wondering if a newer calibration is possible (either with ford scan tool or FORscan?)
What would cause a 3-4 shift hesitation once and a while. Just had a 4-5 hesitation once Valve body was rebuilt and was reprogrammed 2 times 2019 F150 3.5L Thanks
I’ve got a 22 ranger and when I got the truck it did the 2 step shifting which I hated but I had livernois motorsports tune put in the tcm and it’s night and day better no more two step shifts it keeps the right gear for the speed and load so much better that I wonder wtf ford was doing?
My company uses a whole fleet of f450 ad 550 that uses these. Mime and my boss's both blew up the same week. Less than 40k miles on both. Only 12k on mine
Can the updated transmission programming be done on any of the 10 speeds, regardless of year? I own two of these and they both skip shift. I'd really like the F550 to not skip shift and drive normally versus driving everywhere in tow mode.
@ I hear what you're saying. It just doesn't make any sense in the F450/550 platform. Those are trucks made for moving weight. Mine is constantly loaded at 16k+, skip shift just sucks.
I know this will get flak...I like the 4L60e - not because it's great - but because it's easy to repair/rebuild and, if done properly, will last for a long time - cheap repair and relatively easy job.... ......I know - - - INCOMING!
I have a 2019 f150 5.0 engine. Mine doesn't like to go into reverse on a cold start below 60 degrees, also started recently if I'm parked and idling for several minutes then shift to drive, it hesitates badly to go into gear. It acually will free roll the truck a bit. Now I am more of a toyota fan but I've owned a '17 suburban, trans went out at 120k and this f150 has 115k on it now but it's been acting up since about 30k miles. These junk domestic brands make me officially a toyota loyalist. As far as towing, I've used the f150 and my 21 tundra, the tundra tows much more effortlessly!
I sure miss my long gone F350s that had the bullet proof C6s or even the 5R/6R140's in my later F350s. Now I have to to haggle with my stealership on why my '19 F150 has a harsh shifting problem at 47K after they just did the cam phasers. Sigh......
It's misleading what be said about who developed what. Ford got into a partnership with GM where Ford agreed to lead the development of a 10 speed longitudinally mounted transmission and GM would lead development of a 9-speed transversely mounted transmission. They agreed that they would share their designs with each other. Ford changed the 9-speed into an 8-speed to save money but otherwise it's a GM 9-speed. The problems with Ford's 10-speed are completely on Ford, not GM. Notice how GM's version of the 10-speed doesnt have issues with the CDF drum.
@hochhaul The 10R80 (Ford) and 10L80 (GM) are essentially the same. They have the same CDF drum.Jan 23, 2024 General Motors The Ford-GM 10-speed automatic transmission is part of a joint venture between Ford Motor Company and General Motors to design and engineer two transmissions: a longitudinal 10-speed transmission and a transverse 9-speed trans-axle. How was i misleading ?
@johne8907 I said flying wrenches was being misleading. As is anyone trying to divert blame away from Ford and onto GM for the 10-speed's problems. Teaming up with GM is insane? Ford's engineers lead its development, not GM. Ford is the one with CDF drum issues, not GM. Ford's 10-speed valve body is 100% Ford's design, not GM's. The majority of issues with GM's version are the pump gear bearing or valve body related. Ford and GM designed their valve bodies independent of each other. "Sources say GM is leading development of a fwd nine-speed and Ford is spearheading work on a rwd 10-speed." Automotive News, April 15, 2013. Ford's 10-speed problems are 100% the fault of Ford's engineers, not GM. The fact that there was a partnership doesnt change that because Ford lead the 10-speed development.
The 10R80 is one of the reasons im getting rid of my F150. 45k miles and it shifts like garbage. The 10R140 is just as bad. My F350 is on trans #2, and its going in again for service next week. Only 80k miles.
Mayson, I hope your employer it doesn't get angry at you for posting these videos. Yes, they're very informative and you've got the solution to the problem. There's a class action suit against general motors on hydramatic 8L90s and hydramatic 8l45s.If you qualify as part of the settlement and paid out of pocket for a fix to the part, you're entitled to a payment between $6,356 and $12,712. The exact amount depends on how many people end up filing a claim and being approved.Oct 2, 2024 keep. General motors is not admitting any guilt saying there's nothing wrong with the transmissions, but it's cheaper to pay out than to go into a lawsuit. Doesn't make sense to me.
My transmission shop won’t touch 8 or 10 speeds we have enough business with the older models or race cars/restorations. Plus we don’t have to buy the updated equipment to have to fix them. We leave this to the dealership
Foolish to wait. There are a ton of these transmissions and they're starting to come off of warranty. With the insane prices dealers want, a lot of owners will be looking for a trans shop that has experience working on them.
@@hochhaul I agree. If I could’ve found a reputable third party shop near me to do mine with the right upgrades to prolong the transmission past 200k I would’ve gladly paid them as much as a dealer if not more. When the 10 speed works it’s great, just the few bugs they have combined with awful oem tuning makes me wish I got the 6 speed f150.
My local shops are also stuck in the past and won't touch the 10 speeds. I towed my truck 2 hours away to an indy shop to avoid giving the dealership any more business.
I think the anodizing is just a cheap way to get them over the warranty finish line.
100%!
6000 series aluminium is nice for trim pieces but you want your transmission drum made from 7075
@@jeremytegland6663 even with aircraft aluminum grade alloy, it's still aluminum in the end and the clutch pack teeth that mate/slide on it are steel.
I’ve been the auto trans specialist at my ford and dodge dealer for 8 years, the 6f35, 10spds and the RFE transmissions are so much fun to build. Makes me feel good to see someone else my age doing what I do, keep playing in the red juice brother.
Can you tell me the difference between 6r75 and the 6r80, I have a '08 expedition Ty
Have a 19’ Ranger. I put the Ford Performace Calibration on it. Completely resolved most of the weird shifting issues and couldn’t be happier.
Ford and GM coming together to create the worst transmissions they can
Planned obsolescence. Job security.
we had a 10l80 in a 2020 Silverado that had the pump drive idler gear spin on the bearing race and start walking off. It caused a supercharger whine noise. We pulled it and replaced the front piece behind the converter that houses all the pump drive stuff and it has been great ever since. We love this trans. It is amazing. The shifting is spot on. It never gear hunts. Its about as good as a trans can get.
GM tried to avoid complaints for noise from the straight cut gear Ford used but nobody bothered to make sure the bearing could handle the thrust of a helical gear.
I bought a ‘21 F150 Lariat in August with 37k miles. I noticed the same thing, very clunky when coming up to a stop on downshifts. Took it to the Ford dealer I bought it from and ended up getting the transmission overhauled with the new updated CDF drum, clutches, seals, etc. I was told that per Ford they just clean the valve body and reinstall it. My service advisor told me to drive the truck for 1000 miles and if it’s still not shifting properly they will replace the valve body as well. One thing I wasn’t expecting was that when they were removing the cats to get the trans out, the bolt threads on the turbos stripped so I ended up with brand new turbos as well all covered under warranty lol. The truck definitely shifts much better now but it’s only been a few hundred miles so far
3.5 or 2.7?
@ 3.5
You have a good dealer!
@@No_nonsense302 I was very impressed with how they handled the whole thing. Best dealership I’ve ever dealt with for sure
Municipal mechanic here....We just got two 2024 f-550's and four 2024 F-350's. First 350 we got we took it back to service department for the transmission whine. Dealership seemed perplexed by it but in the meantime, we took delivery of the 550's and they had the same noise. Sounds like a PTO is engaged. Dealership called us and said it appears to be normal (which we had already sort of figured out ourselves through reasoning). Plans are to buy about 16 more of these over the next 2 years so I sure hope they can hold up to a lot of idling, pulling, and plowing.
I really like the transmission. I don't necessarily like the whine but it is what it is. Definitely very noticeable.
Thanks for your videos, Mayson! Doin' a great job.
Read the owners manual.
You are NOT Supposed to IDLE your truck.
At all.
If you got two of em read one of the manuals
@@fastinradfordable Ha Ha...not been around municipal vehicles much have you? They probably idle as much as police vehicles if not more depending on what they're using the truck for that day. Read the manual.....👍 Got it!
If the whine makes it Powerglide reliable it is an acceptable price to pay. Of course a 2 speed Powerglide is the polar opposite of a 10 speed
Funny you mention whine in the transmissions... don't know how old you are, but if you remember the ORIGINAL Allison automatics from the 70's and 80's those things whined like a gear driven camshaft, but they never died. Hopefully that's the case here as well, but time will tell.
@@kleetus92 the earliest Allison's I have been around was the old 4 speed that the torque converter locked in each gear. I think they were a 740D??? I drove front discharge concrete trucks for many years and they all had this transmission. They were indestructible but when it they switched from, say, second to third gear, the converter would unlock and then it would just hang in third / unlocked forever it seemed then the converter would lock and you would start to gain speed again. Then it would switch to fourth gear and unlock the converter again. It would hang there in fourth / unlocked forever with the engine at 2000 rpm then it would lock the converter and then it is was good from there. Form what it felt like, they would take off in first unlocked then go to first locked, second unlocked to second locked, third unlocked to third locked, and then fourth unlocked to fourth locked so they were always skipping around with engine rpm. And yes, they were noisy. Especially switching from first gear locked to second gear unlocked and second gear locked to third gear unlocked.
All this being said… I really have a new appreciation for my good ole 6R80E transmission in my ole Ford truck ✊🏼
I bought a F150 XLT sport FX4 in December of 2019 with 32 miles on it. I noticed immediately that it was clunky in the lower gears. I drove it on pipeline job sites, towed a side by side, towed a boat, and drove thousands of miles. It was just clunky. Last year at around 84,000 miles, I noticed it shifting hard between 3rd and 4th gear. I took it in for a replacement of the APIM and some other warranty issues and I asked them to check the programming on the transmission. The dealer called me and said they wanted to remove my transmission and check for the bushing issue in the CDF drum. I had the extended service plan, so I said no problem. They ended up having my truck for a month due to a shortage of some single use bolts for the reinstall process. Have no idea if they installed a new valve body or the new style drum, but it seems to be doing fine and it’s much smoother. That whole process cost me 100 bucks. The service manager told me this year when I took it back for cam phaser replacement, that they charge 9500 bucks for a non warranty 10R80 replacement.
I bought a ‘21 F150 Lariat in August with 37k miles. I noticed the same thing, very clunky when coming up to a stop on downshifts. Took it to the Ford dealer I bought it from and ended up getting the transmission overhauled with the new updated CDF drum, clutches, seals, etc. I was told that per Ford they just clean the valve body and reinstall it. My service advisor told me to drive the truck for 1000 miles and if it’s still not shifting properly they will replace the valve body as well. One thing I wasn’t expecting was that when they were removing the cats to get the trans out, the bolt threads on the turbos stripped so I ended up with brand new turbos as well all covered under warranty lol. The truck definitely shifts much better now but it’s only been a few hundred miles so far
$8000 to dealer in middle GA at 120k in my 2018. Took them 3 transmissions from ford to get a good reman unit. 10k miles later and they’ve already had to swap it again for an another reman. Wish I could’ve brought it straight to you to begin with. $5500 rebuild from someone who knows what they’re looking at beats a mechanic they just changes parts.
fix or repair daily
As a GM dealer tech. i will say the valve bodies are having lots of problems. been replacing lots of em. I have only seen one totally trashed due to owner abuse,
Man I miss manual transmission in those half tons!!
I've had to build my transmissions, to stand up to my heavy foot for years. A new one needs $6000, of parts and work, to be bullet proofed. Maybe more, if your slapping a Whipple, on your new 5.0 F150, you'd need a bit more. I believe a 10r80, builds up to a 10R140...on the same case. Building it up front, is cheaper than waiting for it to break.
I have a 2020 Silverado. I bought it July 2024 with 35,900 miles. It has the 10L80 paired with the 3.0 Duramax. I'm doing transmission fluid changes every 25k miles. Fluid is cheap and transmissions are expensive.
That doesn’t prevent the problem from occurring you’re wasting money
@@Sleeper_Solutions
Buys 3.0 duramax and acts like it’s goona last😂😂😂😂
Save the fluid money for when the two engine belts go out at 150
Or the thermostat that’s inaccessible without removing the motor 😭😭😭
Great trans. I love it!! Does have a few issues but new stuff does. I'm a tech so over haul is easy on these so I absolutely own one. 2018 F-150 w/3.5l
According to TSB 24-2304, published 24Sep2024, the build date range is On or Before 15Aug2022. Vehs built after this date have the revised CDF parts.👍🏻
And they still shift like shit. At least my 2022 does, built 12-30-2022
You should sell cdf drums as merch
I like the 10 speed,love the skip shifting. Great for towing.Beats 6r80 hands down when towing.My 17 f150 3.5 with 10r80 was way smoother than my 19 3.5 with 10r80.This one shifts rough when cold but otherwise fine
Really enjoy your videos man but I gotta disagree on which trans is best. Mopar used to have major trans issues, ZF 8-spd resolved everything. The amount of abuse customers put those through (Wranglers, Hellcats, etc) and it just takes it. Even the lighter duty versions are great. We're about to find out how it handles the Cummins but I'll be surprised if theres any issues based on their prior track record. Keep up the good work brother!
Zf for sure as the top transmission right now, I can't wait to see how the hd version does.
A lot of the previous 6 speeds were born from the ZF 6HP such Ford 6R line and GMs 6L line.
The ZF 8HP is a successor to that meanwhile Ford and GM went off on a repeat of the 6 speed transverse.
What would you say is the failure rate? 1 in 5, 1 in 100, 50/50? Seems like a high failure rate to me
Im curios to
Maybe 10 million on the road? If it was 10% I can’t imagine ford could tsb their way out of that many complaints
I work at a Ford Dealer in Michigan. Have a 17 F150 Raptor with the 10R80, I think it is a CDF Drum because it slams into gear when shifting into drive
Valve body
I have 2017 raptor original transmission. 180k on truck . Runs great
The Cup plugs in the input shaft also become disloged. The E clutch seals blow out. Also had the pin in the pump roll out of position causing low pressure. On the 10r60, the A clutch snap ring likes to blow out.
2018 F-150 got as a demo with 2000 miles in early 2019. Now at 120k. Changed 8:15 fluid and filter at 80k and had a shop flush at 100k. Does skip gears especially 1-3 and sometimes clunky into 4. I run in tow mode about monthly just to exercise all the valves and clutches. Runs great, tows strong. Looking for 300k. We’ll see.
I’ll give you 10:1 odds it doesn’t make it?
I had my 2020 rebuilt this spring because it was locking up on the 1-2 shift the first shift of the day cold, literally sliding the rear tires. It had under 40,000 miles. I know they put in the updated drum/ bushing and a bunch of other parts. Hopefully the anodized shell was done also. I’m glad I got the extended 100,000 mile warranty
2017 3.5 ecoboost 120k miles. Did a filter and fluid change at 75k miles. Gonna do a fluid change at 125k. I have an occasional shift flair going into 4th when it does shift into it which is annoying and only the first shift of the day. It also downshifts into 3rd clunky from time to time. It’s been like this since I bought it with 50k Miles. Other than that it’s been solid. Wonder how much time I got left before a rebuild.
Great speed video on all the 10 speed issues, upgrades, solutions. Wow $5k for a rebuild + reinstall + programing / relearning; how much fuel money is
saved ? All these extra moving parts, there is good reliablity in simplier 3, 4 transmissions. Dipsicks let you check fluid level /quality AND add fluid that leaks over time.
There is a dipstick...it's just small and accessed from the bottom. I change ATF at 30K intervals and the level never changes between fills.
@@bruceb1958 Accessed from the bottom?? Sounds more like a plug!
@@kleetus92 Its used to fill the transmission but also incorporates a dipstick.
@@kleetus92 Accessed from the bottom of the vehicle. Its a fill plug with a dipstick that can be used.
@@bruceb1958 Ohhhh so it's on the side of the case or the top of the pan?
I find it interesting that there's a lot of fine particulate matter that seems to be getting into the controls... what all does this transmission family have by way of filtration? I'm sure there's a sock or whatever in the pan, but is there an external fine or polishing filter in the cooling loop? In seeing some of the shots with the valve body being split, there's A TON of contamination in there that I'm honestly surprised to see. How is that stuff getting past the filter and pumps?
Seems like a great case for an external spin on 10 micron hydraulic filter to be added.
I did a full fluid exchange on my 18 F150 at 100K miles. I am almost to 150K miles now and plan to do it every 50K going forward. Is this a good plan? It’s been flawless so far.
When i looked this up for the trans all i see is 30-60k. That's my plan for my 24.
If you're towing often, I'd say fluid and filter at every 36k to 40k miles. If only towing occassionally yeah 50k should be fine.
Well I ordered a 2018 Kinger, but I did a bunch of mods.
Had a custom tune made from MPT tuning so it would shift every gear!! I wonder how long it will hold.
We don’t beat the truck but she makes 15 pounds!! So much fun. And yes we had the rev limiter turned down!! She makes power tho!!
Great video! Thanks for the info. I have a 2018 Expedition that was manufactured in March of 2018. It has 72,500 miles on it. I have a couple of questions. Are there any preventative measures that you would recommend? Fluid change or additives, or anything else that I can do as preventative maintenance???
Drop the pan and change the filter every 30,000 miles. Refill with fluid. That only gets about half the fluid, which is why it needs to be changed every 30,000 miles
You could change the fluid every day and it wont stop it from failing. Nothing you can do to stop that sleeve from walking. Unfortunately we are stuck fixing Fords discount engineering.
Could you make a video discussing the symptoms that would cause someone to need a rebuild? What would you feel while driving that would correlate to the CDF drum bushing or the F clutch notching?
The first cold 1-2 shift will let you know that the bushing has slipped
I’ll keep driving my 2005 F250 with the 5R110W TorqShift 5-Speed. Never had a problem with that transmission and it pulls my race car hauler trailer to the dragstrip just fine.
2020 Ranger - Love the way the truck pulls a trailer with this trans and a little 4 cyl. I have only one issue with mine (beside occasional rough 5th gear shift) is when it's very cold outside and you start it first thing in the morning and drive off - it has a HUGE hesitation on the first shift, then fine after that. I have had it at the deal 3 times and each time they reprogram it and say it's fine now. It does not have the issue when overnight temp is above 55 degrees or if I wait 2 -3 minutes after starting the engine to drive off. Strange but I guess I need to be patient. Seems to me they could diagnose without even looking at the truck - just from the symptoms but I don't think these local dealership guys really understand the trans, they just fix per the manual.
"but tha computer says..... "
2020 Ranger so far has been rock solid but I tow a lot with it so you’ve given me something to think about.
I have a 10r80 in my 2018 f150. I have 120k miles on it and I haven’t touched the trans. Should I do a drain and fill or leave it alone?
After that many miles, leave it be.
@ I ended up doing the drain and fill last week. After doing the service she shifts amazing and is more quite
My A10R80 came half a quart low on fluid from Factory. Then after an exhaust cam solenoid replacement. Has turned into the best transmission I have ever driven.
Just like the fucus trans with the snap ring in that trans
Wife’s 2020 Expedition transmission cost $5250 here in North Ga back in August of 2024- 82k miles
I'm glad I have a 2017 F-150 with the 6-speed, the extra gears just cause extra shifting = heat = wear, for what, an extra mpg, drive a 6-speed nicer!
Do the gm vehicles with this trans have the same issues? I only here about the Fords
Work on a lot of 10 speeds at my dealership they pay all my bills and I’ve seen some torque converter fails and front support failures as well
Thanks Flying Wrenches for the awesome video! I just bought a 2019 F150 with the Gen2 3.5 eco boost and 10 speed transmission. It was “Gold certified” pre owned from the local big ford dealer. After I got it home I saw in the carfax that the transmission was rebuilt (or replaced, I can’t tell) about 8k miles ago (in late 2023). Does this necessarily mean it will have these revised parts (namely the CDF drum) that have caused so many issues? Would the dealer be able to confirm that?
Only transmission I haven’t had a single issue with is the Aisin 6 speed in my 2008 Tundra 5.7…300k hard miles and still shifts like new! After almost 17 years I’m starting to look at something new…but Toyota ruined the new Tundra. Now I see all the issues Ford and GM are STILL dealing with…ugh. Wtf do I buy?!?! 😵💫
I’ve bean Asian import technician for 30 years and unfortunately there’s nothing being made by Toyota or Honda that I would recommend to anyone. My advice is to buy used and find the rare low mileage vehicles in the market even if you have to pay more for them. Small turbocharged vehicles with DI and CVT transmissions have ruined the long term reliability of most vehicles being built today.
@@prevost8686don’t buy ram!
@@Nick-gi6ym There’s nothing new that I would buy.
I feel your pain... we're in the same boat, I am currently on my second Tundra, 247,000 with only the secondary air pump recall and regular maintenance.
I have a 2019 F-150 3.5 Ecoboost that I've towed our 8,000lb camper about 5,500 miles with. Just about to turn 42k on the odometer and I haven't had an issued with the transmission. (Knock on wood)
The Cam Phasers have started to rattle a touch on startup however....
I think you should get rid of those cam phasors. I did on my 2018 3.5, much quieter and it seems like a component that is bound to fail in time. Mine got noisier, when I checked out the Ford replacement cam phasers. They were much sturdier device than the ones they put on the 2018 I owned.
What build date has the updated anodized shell?
How do you know if the drum is going bad?What are the symptoms
Great video tips, but, how much for labor and parts ?
Hey dumbass... Maybe watch the WHOLE video?
If it's your shop I hope your place grows your on point I'd rather deal with you than amcco that's for sure close in price
Had a 2019 f150 5.0 with that 10 speed and hated it. Traded that for a 2017 5.0 6 speed and love it. That being said I just bought a 2021 expedition max platinum lease turn in with the 3.5 eco and that 10 speed. Only has 19000 miles on it and so far it’s a night and day difference. Time will tell but hoping it’s a good tranny.
I've got a '21 Expedition and we had the CDF drum, valve body and a bunch of cooked clutches replaced. Trans out 3 different times to fix all the issues. They finally just replaced the transmission with a new one. All of the updated parts were end of '22 so '23 and up will have all the new stuff. Mine finally drives as it should.
@ thanks for that heads up! Guess I may as well start pushing for fixes
@@bpresgrove you have extended factory warranty?
@ yes
I have a 2022 F-250 and notice while towing my 9000 pound travel trailer The transmission down shifts hard from 10th to eighth while I’m slowing down. Sometimes from 9th to 8th. Not sure why
Plus Ford can’t seem to get a module for my 360 camera system in it’s on national backorder with no ETA. Sucks not have the cameras. Build date was 12/2022
So if you get a 2024 F150, the transmission should be good for 100,000 miles?
You didn't check the endplay clearance in your video assembling the 10r80. We set the case on a super duty rotor and set the shell on a 5gal bucket with a hole in the bottom and assemble everything in a "upright" position. Makes life a lot easier.
2019 f150 2.7. Wonder if those software updates are available for older vehicles. No issues other than occasional clunk shifting to R and sometimes forgets to pick a gear when accelerating.
Have a 2017 F150 10R80 with 162,xxx so far. Only have changed oil and filter, shifts like butter. 🤞🏻🤞🏻 smash that Trump button!!
More than 8 ratios, is unnecessarily complicated for a pickup. 6 might be plenty for 90% of owners.
That’s the problem. The engines keep pushing out more and more hp, to keep the EPA happy with fuel miles and also keeping the customers happy it’s a trade off. They have pushed all they can with newer trucks. The add more gears and run tall ratios will only go so far with keeping both sides happy. The older trucks will always be better and more reliable.
Damn I got a 2021 2.7 and seems to shift fine, only had 27k miles on it. But do all of these 10r80s go out..? or is it just something that’s happened to a couple thousand of theses transmissions ?
Can you make a video talking about the torque converter shudder
I have 17’ Raptor and mine does the stupid skipping gears shit. One thing you didn’t mention is the adaptive learning garbage. Do the new ones still do this? Do you think the adaptive learning is the reason for wonky shifting. I have to clear my tables every 4 months to keep it smooth.
Didn’t mention the plastic pan next to the exhaust disintegrates the gasket 😢
6 speed is the sweet spot. There does seem to be a link between the more speeds you deviate from that the greater the likelihood of problems.
I was thinking the same thing. I have a 16 F150 2.7 ecoboost and it shifts perfectly, appx 89000 miles.
What transmission is in the new F250 with the 6.8 ? I heard it's a 10R100 🤔
On Mustang GT after ATF and Filter change is it safe to "Flush The Torque Converter " ? Camaro don't have filter its just drain ATF and Fill in New ATF, after is it safe to Flush The Torque Converter ?
truck at work transmission went out wouldnt go in reverse or park its a 2020 F550 7.3 with 10 spd
9k tranmission replacement quote crazy
I AGREE!! TRUMP!!!!!
@@robbiebennett8185too bad ya cant buy a decent brain. Con man
@@robbiebennett8185 I didn't know he did transmission work!😂🤣
@@TexasRiverRat31254 yea he does that too. TRUMPS TRANSMISSION SERVICE. GO TRUMP
2017 Ford f-150 3.5 a little shimmie at 55 and bad shifting what to do?
Can you please talk about a 2024 F-150 5.0 coyote STX am I good with this one and are there updates on the 2024 models since we are going into the new year? Pressed the LIKE button
Hey Mayson, my 18 Expedition is starting to show some shifting issues and at 94k miles I'm guessing it's the cdf drum finally failing. What's the lead time on ya'll getting them in and what's the turnaround time? I'm in Texas but I'm tired of dealing with lying dealers and shady service departments out here.
How do I go about the fluid exchange in 2024 GMC 10 speed after about 20K?
Is it a bad idea to tow in overdrive?
@flying wrenches - Is it possible to upgrade the transmission software to the newer calibrations (21+ or S650) on a 2019 Mustang?
I have driven the s650 and the way it shifts compared to my 2019 is night/day difference. Wondering if a newer calibration is possible (either with ford scan tool or FORscan?)
how does this bushing get moved out of place?
What would cause a 3-4 shift hesitation once and a while. Just had a 4-5 hesitation once Valve body was rebuilt and was reprogrammed 2 times 2019 F150 3.5L Thanks
I’ve got a 22 ranger and when I got the truck it did the 2 step shifting which I hated but I had livernois motorsports tune put in the tcm and it’s night and day better no more two step shifts it keeps the right gear for the speed and load so much better that I wonder wtf ford was doing?
Are the 2024 GMC HD trucks with the 10 speed updated?
Those prices make me want a TH350
Can you upgrade a 2013 with the new one.
My company uses a whole fleet of f450 ad 550 that uses these. Mime and my boss's both blew up the same week. Less than 40k miles on both. Only 12k on mine
There's also the 10R100 which I have.
Was looking for this comment. 6.8 minizilla, and now on the 7.3s for 2025 up - tremors
The GM 10L80 has issues with pump idler gear bearing. It sucks.
Hell ya fight fight fight.
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT 🇺🇸
Is the 10R-80 in the new F250 XL 6.8?
Needs to be a #NHTSA #Recall these need serious updates on several of the components, CDF Drum bushing and STEEL Trash Cans , no Aluminum!
Hey man, do you own your own shop? If so where are you located so I can have my 10r80 serviced by you lol
This
No he works for a Ford dealership in Alabama.
@@bearing_aficionado 4-10
@T0MFORD 4-10??? You mean 10-4?
@ lol yes
What's the cost for this rebuild?, if i was to just give you the transmission.
He mentions he can't do that. He has to install it to test it properly. So, you need to take the vehicle to his shop.
Can the updated transmission programming be done on any of the 10 speeds, regardless of year? I own two of these and they both skip shift. I'd really like the F550 to not skip shift and drive normally versus driving everywhere in tow mode.
Skip shift is how that transmission is designed. But a update still does improve shifts
@ I hear what you're saying. It just doesn't make any sense in the F450/550 platform. Those are trucks made for moving weight. Mine is constantly loaded at 16k+, skip shift just sucks.
what's the story on the 10r100 in the super duty?
I know this will get flak...I like the 4L60e - not because it's great - but because it's easy to repair/rebuild and, if done properly, will last for a long time - cheap repair and relatively easy job....
......I know - - - INCOMING!
The only thing a 10 speed does better than a ZF8 is keep transmission techs employed. ZF8 is hands down the world's best
I owned a 2020 10R140... garbage.Replaced it with 2 ZF 8HP75...the ZF is world class: smooth and troublefree
Where is your shop located?
Wish I could rebuild these, looks like I might confuse the heck out of it..
I'm glad Ford decided against the transverse 11 speed automatic they had patented about 10 years ago. That thing would probably not hold up well.
I have a 2019 f150 5.0 engine. Mine doesn't like to go into reverse on a cold start below 60 degrees, also started recently if I'm parked and idling for several minutes then shift to drive, it hesitates badly to go into gear. It acually will free roll the truck a bit.
Now I am more of a toyota fan but I've owned a '17 suburban, trans went out at 120k and this f150 has 115k on it now but it's been acting up since about 30k miles. These junk domestic brands make me officially a toyota loyalist. As far as towing, I've used the f150 and my 21 tundra, the tundra tows much more effortlessly!
I sure miss my long gone F350s that had the bullet proof C6s or even the 5R/6R140's in my later F350s. Now I have to to haggle with my stealership on why my '19 F150 has a harsh shifting problem at 47K after they just did the cam phasers. Sigh......
2018 f150 had the same problem cost me 5500 $ to fix but great truck over all why ford teamed up with gm to make this transmission is insane to me
It's misleading what be said about who developed what. Ford got into a partnership with GM where Ford agreed to lead the development of a 10 speed longitudinally mounted transmission and GM would lead development of a 9-speed transversely mounted transmission. They agreed that they would share their designs with each other. Ford changed the 9-speed into an 8-speed to save money but otherwise it's a GM 9-speed. The problems with Ford's 10-speed are completely on Ford, not GM. Notice how GM's version of the 10-speed doesnt have issues with the CDF drum.
@hochhaul The 10R80 (Ford) and 10L80 (GM) are essentially the same. They have the same CDF drum.Jan 23, 2024
General Motors
The Ford-GM 10-speed automatic transmission is part of a joint venture between Ford Motor Company and General Motors to design and engineer two transmissions: a longitudinal 10-speed transmission and a transverse 9-speed trans-axle.
How was i misleading ?
@johne8907 I said flying wrenches was being misleading. As is anyone trying to divert blame away from Ford and onto GM for the 10-speed's problems. Teaming up with GM is insane? Ford's engineers lead its development, not GM. Ford is the one with CDF drum issues, not GM. Ford's 10-speed valve body is 100% Ford's design, not GM's. The majority of issues with GM's version are the pump gear bearing or valve body related. Ford and GM designed their valve bodies independent of each other. "Sources say GM is leading development of a fwd nine-speed and Ford is spearheading work on a rwd 10-speed." Automotive News, April 15, 2013.
Ford's 10-speed problems are 100% the fault of Ford's engineers, not GM. The fact that there was a partnership doesnt change that because Ford lead the 10-speed development.
@@hochhaul i concede 👏👏👏👏
The 10R80 is one of the reasons im getting rid of my F150. 45k miles and it shifts like garbage. The 10R140 is just as bad. My F350 is on trans #2, and its going in again for service next week. Only 80k miles.
yeh push the tRUMP Eject button
had mine replaced at 130k $7500 for new transmission from ford and to have it installed.
Mayson, I hope your employer it doesn't get angry at you for posting these videos. Yes, they're very informative and you've got the solution to the problem. There's a class action suit against general motors on hydramatic 8L90s and hydramatic 8l45s.If you qualify as part of the settlement and paid out of pocket for a fix to the part, you're entitled to a payment between $6,356 and $12,712. The exact amount depends on how many people end up filing a claim and being approved.Oct 2, 2024 keep. General motors is not admitting any guilt saying there's nothing wrong with the transmissions, but it's cheaper to pay out than to go into a lawsuit. Doesn't make sense to me.
Known issue but not fixed ?
7800.00 rebuild on my 10r80 in my 2020 F150.
My transmission shop won’t touch 8 or 10 speeds we have enough business with the older models or race cars/restorations. Plus we don’t have to buy the updated equipment to have to fix them. We leave this to the dealership
Foolish to wait. There are a ton of these transmissions and they're starting to come off of warranty. With the insane prices dealers want, a lot of owners will be looking for a trans shop that has experience working on them.
@@hochhaul I agree. If I could’ve found a reputable third party shop near me to do mine with the right upgrades to prolong the transmission past 200k I would’ve gladly paid them as much as a dealer if not more. When the 10 speed works it’s great, just the few bugs they have combined with awful oem tuning makes me wish I got the 6 speed f150.
My local shops are also stuck in the past and won't touch the 10 speeds. I towed my truck 2 hours away to an indy shop to avoid giving the dealership any more business.
Not a single bit of "updated " equipment required... unless you are referring to the laptop...